URGENT HELP NEEDED ENGINE MISSING AND ON THREE

[Tight Git]

Sorry for caps on Topic title!
Im going away and i need to get the moke ready today, so i can make the pilgrimage.
Here we go:
After Finishing building the moke, i have had nothing but trouble with the engine. Here are the problems and a bit of history.
She was running VERY rich, because out of time, due to stuck dizzy.
Finally moved the distributor, actaully i took it out and found that the vacuum advance had become disconnected.
Also the Condensor was shorting against the backplate,
Fixed all those, and she still didnt work, kept Missing and firing on 3 or 2 only.
Refurbed the carb, and had it tuned. Re-timed her endlessly.
Still missing, turns out she didnt like my new spark plugs, so bought some bosch ones, and she was fine. not missing or firing on three.
So for the first time since rebuild i actaully took her our for some cruising.
Put her to bed after about 50miles driving, noticed she was running on a bit and awfully hot (dont have a temp guage).
Flushed the coolant, needed it full of rusty water, and there was scum in the radiator (NOT OIL).
Changed the oil, that was also really disgusting really thick black, used some flushing agent aswell.
Fired her up,
ONLY FIRING ON THREE AGAIN!!! Grrrr...Changed spark plug, and she was on 4 again, left her outside for a bit and when i came to start her again
You Guessed it....Three Cylinders only!

I replaced all the Sparks twice, and i then replaced the plug with a spare one...what are the odds of 3 faulty plugs...i know the leads got lectricity because of the shocks it was giving me, and the ticking noise as i earth it to the block.
I find 2 and 3 give me the worst trouble in general. Head gasket is less than 100miles old

Plugs used to run VeRY sooty, but now just a little black. No heat damage that i can tell off. Fuel issue, i have tuned the carb, she usd to do black smoke out of the back, so i leaned her up, and got someone who has lived with minis for years to tune her correctly using the tickle pin. he tought me how to do it!!

Why was it running one day perfectly, and the next day just not!!

Any help would be much appreciated, i am really starting to get fed up with this engine...GRRRRRR.

Alastair

[Miniböttcher]

crap fuel, is it unleaded head,
distrubitor cap and rotor arm have you tried them, sound like you have a good earth other than that make sure you have you firing order right.

gap on the spark plugs

distributor timing

get a mate round with a mini and borrow there leads ( mark them before you take them off) and test them on your car.

other than that it could be the condensor breaking down or your coil.

one of the last things, head gasket, but not likely due to only done 100 miles, try everything else first.

[ilovemyminis]

hi there,

I have shown my partner Chris your post. He is not a Mini expert but hopes the following may be of help. See below.

Nicky (Humbug and MYJ)


It seems you have covered timing, mixture, firing order and ruled out plugs but see Dean's post re. leads, cap etc.


Q. Are the plugs definately Sooty and not Oily?

May sound like stating the obvious but Sooty will be matt black, Oily will be slightly glossy.


Q. How old was the oil when you changed it?

If not very old, the fact it was very black so quickly would suggest it is letting gases past the pistons or possibly a blocked breather. Crankcase gases not getting out?!


Q. Have you done a compression test?

May confirm the gases past pistons theory. Also, don't rule something out just because it's been done recently ie. head gasket could have leak between cylinders if the head or block face isn't completely flat.


Q. Does it have a mechanical fuel pump?

When a fuel pump diaphragm breaks down or splits it pumps into the oil as it is operated at the cam. This dilutes the oil and causes an increase in wear. I guess it could increase heat and contaminate the oil too and lead to other problems.


Final thing. About ten years ago, I fitted a silly exhaust to a Cavalier. About 4 months down the line it developed a misfire. It was identified that one spark plug was sooting up. After a month of cleaning, fitting new plugs testing and swearing, a friend (a Honda technician) suggested fitting a new back box, since that was all that had changed on the car. Since it was only a back box I had fitted, I only replaced the backbox and the problem went away forever.

Good luck, I hope the above helps,

Chris

[Tight Git]

Ok first: my update.
UPDATE:
Started her up, same problem only firing on three, HOWEVER this time it was number 1 cylinder!!!
I finally got her working on four, Very unreliably, by swapping for old spark plug on number 1, moving around HT leads, Jigging Dizzy Cap, cleaning rotor arm, poking vacuum advance in further.
But i know that tomorrow she'll fire on three again, and it'll take another hour of fiddling to get her working.
She is burning Oil, runs normally through rev range. I dont have a compression tester, but u can feel compression with a finger.
Other things to note,
Often she'll kinda rev up and down when idling, like swapping between 3 and 4 firing cylinders, sometimes it will fire on four but backfire a bit.
Theres a clicking noise like a short circuit but i cant put my finger on where...around coil area.

Now to deal with questions:
All ignition stuff is brand new, in the case of Points and condensor, they have been replaced twice same as spark plugs.
Spark Plugs: Gapped correctly, the car seems to prefer having the old plugs from 15 odd years ago before i restored her, infact i can only get her to fire on all 4 by using old plugs on 1 AND 2 and new ones on 3 and 4. they are sooty, with a coating of petrol were there has been no combustion.

Oil was less than 100Miles old. The gearbox was very dirty when i split the enigne, im just assuming she is getting all the rubbish out also the gearbox has started to free up. All breather hoses are new, aswell as the canister being cleaned out. She is burning oil, upon revving.

I havnt done a compression test as i dont have a tester, however someone said that as the engine was sitting it is possible the rings have siezed?

Has an SU Positive Earth Electrical pump.

The backbox is part of the well know Mini spares Stage 1 kit, i would have liked to of thought it is ok.

Any ideas guys?
Thanks EVER EVER so much for the help.

[ilovemyminis]

Unfortunately I'm not particularly up on electrics but I guess the clicking, if it is coming from Coil area could be related.

Alternatively, the clicking (or ticking) could be a broken piston ring and oil is contaminating plugs.

You say you can feel compression with a finger but I think you would need a gauge to come to an accurate conclusion.

Good luck,
Chris

[Tight Git]

Yer really should invest in a compression tester. Really annoys me that shes sooo unrelaible cant guarentee a proper start!!!
grr!!!!

Thanks for your help

Kindest Regards
Alastair

[Miniböttcher]

change the coil, other than that i would not use it untill its right,

as you have tried most things, take the head off when you get back from were your going replace the head gasket and check the internals, last resort. really ,you may of burnt out a valve seat from the richness , but sometimes it works ok

[Tight Git]

Cheers mate,
Ok, couple of reasons why i dont think its Internal, or valve related.

She seems to workish once i have changed something on the Elctrical side of things.
The valves and seal are BRAND NEW, and she has not done enough work to burn them out.
The fault keeps moving from cylinder to cylinder
Head gasket i just cant see it going there are no signs, as there is compression off sorts and There is no water in the oil.
A coil change i think is what i might go for next aswell as change of Dizzy cap to a Genuine LUCAS one.

Kindest Regards
Alastair

[Miniböttcher]

or try electronic ignition cost about £70 but no more points and condensor, maybe something in the future, it maybe the coil braking down.

saying that on my old ford ka i has started to misfire and firing wrong and got too hot from it , and that come down to be a coil after everything as changed, plugs, leads, etc.

is there someone you could get round to try there coil, i have one you can try but you live too far away,

[Tight Git]

Thanks for the offer, I could swap coils very quickly before the pilgrimage i.e at beachy head at 9.30. just too see if it makes a difference. I will be a little angry if it is the coil as its a brand new LUCAS SPORTS!! Grrrrr

[Deleted]

The Mokey, I will send you a pm now. Have a look and see what you think

[Tight Git]

Cheers for all the help guys. However my problems have dissapeared, i dont understand what was causing it, but shs on all 4 and patiently waiting to be unleashed on the roads to canturbury on the Pilgrimage!!

[Deleted]

Does your car have a condensor fitted?
Also to me bearing in mind its usually on just one cylinder and its moving says to me a dizzy cap with hairline cracks in. That would account for the clicking noise on the ht side also. They can be intermittant faults and go away for months to come back again.

[monkeyjim]

must admit to only scanning through the above posts .
when getting a a car back on the road after a long period off it unless all the bits were already new i recommend new

points
condensor
plug leads
ngk spark plugs
coil
tune the carb on a proper machine
check and top up carb dash pot.
adjust the timing.

d

[Tight Git]

Thanks guys,
But, as i said all Ignition parts are new including
Points
Condensor (Both replaced twice)
Sparking plugs
HT leads
Dizzy Cap
Coil

I think it might be the dizzy cap, im going to aquire a genuine Lucas one, and see if that stops further trouble.

I took her out again,
And she still fires on three, for first minute, and then the fourth cylinder just decides to roar into life.
So i dunno,
THink she's getting her own back after being left all these years ;D

Thanks Again guys, always as helpfull as ever

Alastair