brakes

[katentel]

hi guys can anyone offer any advice on victors brakes.as most people are aware i have totaly stripped victor and am now on the rebuild :)i have laid new pipework from master cylinder to,cooper s 7.5"front discs, i have stripped the calipers put new stainless pistons and new seals.on the rear i have put new cylinders and shoes new flexi hoses and copper pipes all round...now i cant seem to get the front brakes to work ???the rear seem fine.i wondered if the master cylinder or thepressure reducing valve could be at fault and if there is any way of determing that these are working properly. any advice greatly appreciated ,if i keep pumping then the front do eventually work i have bled about 5-6 times but nothing seems to change i dont appear to have any leaks so im a bit stumped

[monkeyjim]

Not telling anyone how to suck eggs with this one . I was a apprentice at a Skoda dealer in the late 80's when the rear engined Skodas were alive and reasonably well .
This was the pre VW era as VW did not take over Skoda untill the early 90's . Unfortunately Czechoslovakian rubber was not great, so blown master cylinders and wheel cylinders were popular . The masters would blow when trying to bleed air from the new wheel cylinders.
Anyway.....all this meant I learnt how to bleed brakes a lot.

Personally once the brake sytem is assembled I would fill up the resevoir , may take a couple of goes to top up . When topped up depending on the type of master cylinder crack open the highest pipe union or union nearest the master cylinder body , no probs on the bean can single line masters as there is only one but on the system that has a servo as fitted to Sidewalk there is more than 1 pipe at master so open unions nearest the resevoir first.
Non bean can pre-servo models have master cylinders that stand upright and the pipes out of the cylinder are located at differant heights , bleed from nearest resevoir first
You may get immediate seapage of fluid, if not get a assistant to give a few steady pumps of pedal ( not to the floor tho) . You should then get fluid out . Do this with the second pipe etc if there is one . Once done, and your getting fluid ,you have bled the master cylinder out . Work down the system so each componant gets bled . Next in line could be the valve on bulkhead if its fitted , one at a time crack open each pipe into it and bleed till you get fluid coming out . Then you know the pipe into valve is free of air as well , then bleed pipes out of valve etc . When you get to bleeding brakes at the wheels start furthest from cylinder and work towards nearest ( shortest pipe) the cylinder which is the drivers side in the Mini's case.
Sometimes just leaving the union undone and let the fluid self syphon is required, so be patient .

So basically bleed each componant with a join in it one at a time , whether it be a master, pipe , hose, valve etc .

Did this with MK1 which had a 100% all new brake system and recently with the Sidewalk. The Servo and Master had been off Sidewalk for engine removal for maybe around a year I guess . The whole lot needed bleeding when it went back together .
Had no prob with either car , that was satisfying with the MK1 as I had heard horror stories about 4 pot calipers being dreadfull to bleed out and people not getting a pedal .

Sometimes its worth clamping a hose , if the pedal goes hard when hose is clamped the trouble lies after the hose .

It can also help by bleeding out 1 pump at a time . The assistant pushes down the pedal and holds it there , when pedal down the person bleeding opens up the union or nipple . Fluid should come out and the pedal sinks , when the assistant says the pedal is down the bleeder should lock off the union . The assistant then releases the pedal and starts the procedure agin , pedal down etc ............
Avoided the replacement of a master cylinder several times over the last 20 years and rescued a system by using this method .

Hope this helps .

If not , youve ****ed something up Tel ;D ;D

[katentel]

cheers dave done my back in today so itll have to wait a few days now but ill give that a go

[monkeyjim]

Read again Tel , just added to my post ;D

[Miniböttcher]

daves covered it all, i always use the 2 person method to bleed brakes never had much success with any machines or one way valves to bleed them

but if when you do bleed the brake and slowly fine out if each union is getting fluid through, and you find its the reducer on the bulk head i have one, unsure on the condition but i never need it

how did you do your back in, and i take it that kates car has been put on hold for a bit

[katentel]

ill try all this first dean and see how it goes ta... wasnt actually doing anything just walking across wicks car park and ended up on all fours just felt like id been stabbed in the back took me half hour just to get back in my van.. nothing going to happen to gilbert till next week

[Miniböttcher]

you would of got back to the van faster if kate was no standing there laughing and taking photos as she does

you have all the luck

but sorry to hear, put your feet put, get them waiting on you and enjoy it, all you need is a bell

[katentel]

youve got katy sussed then lol feel a little better today but somehow got to brave town in a bit

[Miniböttcher]

i try to stay clear of the place as much as possible but i got to bit the bullet and pop in there today,

not much talk about brakes on this post anymore. ha ha ha

[katentel]

not much more to say till ive tried all what dave said, and if that doesnt work ....then i must of ****** something up

[MiniHaven]

hey tel sorry to hear you have naffed your back mate , feet up and relax mate everything else can wait bud !!
with the brakes Dave and Deano have it right , when your apprentice pushes the pedal down and releases the pedal up do it in a slow and deliberate mannor .i have seen folk pumping like fury and nout happening as this adjitates the fluid and mixes the air into tiny bubbles which means you have to walk away from the job for a day to let the air dissipate and start again .

have a great chrimbo tel and kate from us all at newhaven

[katentel]

cheers shawn merry xmas to you and yours

[katentel]

ok here we go again done everything all over again several times even down to removing pads to make sure caliper pistons are all moving.cracked every joint as dave says, i have fluid everywhere. now if i depress the pedal i can still turn the wheels, if i pump several times the pedal goes firm leave it a couple a mins and its soft again..... yet when i bleed again there appears to be no bubbles in bleed tube.there are no wet joints that i can see and definatly no fluid loss from the master cylinder....... sooooooooooo i suppose ive f****d something up somewhere along the way.. suggestions!!! please

[monkeyjim]

Clamp all rubber hoses as close to the union as possible ie not the wheel end of the hose .
See if it stays hard then .

If so gradually take one clamp off at a time and see what happens . You may need to leave it a while between removing clamps to see what happens .

[Miniböttcher]

have to re run the line on the drivers side front which looped up, it maybe holding air at the top, put that joiner/union off the other subframe and shorter the copper pipe. it would of had that from standard.

neil found this with his drum brakes which did the same thing.
they took the drum off and clamped the shoes down so the pistons and total in
here is the link neil found

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMJTndN9s1s

keep trying your get there, sounds like there is more air in the system